❓WHAT HAPPENED: President Donald J. Trump reportedly called former Vice President Mike Pence a “wimp” during a phone call on January 6, 2021, over Pence’s refusal to block the certification of the 2020 election results.
👤WHO WAS INVOLVED: Donald Trump, Mike Pence, and Jonathan Karl, who revealed the details in his upcoming book, Retribution.
📍WHEN & WHERE: January 6, 2021, during a phone call at approximately 11 AM. Eastern, hours before the Capitol breach.
💬KEY QUOTE: “You’ll go down as a wimp. If you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago,” Trump reportedly said to Pence, according to the former Vice President’s notes.
🎯IMPACT: Pence has attempted to position himself as and capitalize on being the foremost anti-Trump voice in the Republican Party. However, Pence has shown a lack of fortitude and success even in that endeavor.
In a phone call on January 6, 2021, hours before the Capitol protests, President Donald J. Trump reportedly criticized then-Vice President Mike Pence for refusing to block the certification of the 2020 election results while state-level challenges were underway. According to notes taken by Pence, Trump called him a “wimp” and said, “If you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago.” These details come from Jonathan Karl’s upcoming book, Retribution.
Pence’s notes, written in his day planner, were intended to be used as evidence by former Special Counsel Jack Smith in his investigation into Trump’s alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Pence had previously referenced this call in his 2022 memoir, So Help Me God. Trump later stated during a speech on January 6 that he hoped Pence would “do the right thing” by declining to sign off on questionable Electoral College votes, but the then-Vice President refused to back the America First leader.
During the certification process, Trump tweeted criticism of Pence, stating he “didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution.”
Trump has denied calling Pence a “wimp,” contradicting his former Vice President’s recollection of events. Notably, Pence has attempted to position himself as and capitalize on being the foremost anti-Trump voice in the Republican Party. Even in that endeavour, however, Pence has shown a lack of fortitude. The National Pulse reported in May that Pence, while accepting the John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage Award for his actions in January 2020, avoided criticizing President Trump by name, instead opting to attack the President through innuendo.
In January, Pence—in his role as an establishment mouthpiece to attack President Trump and his agenda—lobbied Republicans in the Senate to reject Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s nomination as Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). Pence’s political organization, Advancing American Freedom, unsuccessfully whipped Republican senators against the ex-Democrat Kennedy’s nomination on the pretext of his past support for abortion access.
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